oooh "a lot of us have confused 'influence' for 'impact'" that will PREACH. Yeah I feel bad for not having any answers, and I wonder if there are any easy answers in today's world.
I’ve been thinking about this for the past year or two. Being in South Korea now, another country influenced and rooted in capitalism, I’m learning more and more about the enmeshment of this economic theory and Christianity and trying to understand how to live counter to my culture while not forsaking it altogether. I want to love my culture and the people in it, but I also want to call them to a better way.
I was talking to my dad about this last night, and I think those are SUCH good thoughts. I'm honestly unsure how much it has to do with the specific economic system we are in and how much ANY economic system can be perverted to serve the self. I am cheering for you!
I believe the answer lies in returning to God’s original design for the church. Not as an institution, but as a living Body where Christ alone is the Head and Shepherd. The ecclesia was never meant to be defined by titles, buildings, or hierarchical systems, but by a community of believers walking in mutual submission, active participation, and shared spiritual gifts, all under the lordship of Jesus.
• Does scripture define “pastor” as a title?
• Does scripture support a clergy/laity class divide?
• Does scripture support the church building as the house of the Lord?
• Does scripture define the ecclesia gathering as monolog or dialogue?
• Does scripture define “church” as an event or as a people?
• Does scripture ever refer to “worship” as a weekly meeting?
• Who is biblically authorized to speak, teach, or lead in the ecclesia?
• Does scripture support the professionalization of ministry?
• Did Jesus or the apostles establish institutional leadership structures or organic, relational ones?
• Does scripture indicate that financial giving is for building maintenance and staff salaries, or for meeting the needs of people?
• Does scripture define “fellowship” (koinonia) as passive attendance or active participation?
• Does scripture allow for the consolidation of spiritual authority around a single individual?
• Does the New Testament portray spiritual gifts as hierarchical or equal in value for building up the body?
Could it be that “Nicolaitan” in Rev 2:6&15 could mean the man-made system we’ve created? Our golden calf?
So, okay. I’m not 100% on board. Maybe 50%??? Tim Keller’s site frustrated me for years because you had to pay for his sermons. Meanwhile, Piper and plenty of others offered theirs for free. But let’s be real—both those guys sold books, packed out conferences, and had marketing teams helping them distribute millions of dollars’ worth of materials over their lifetimes. I have no doubt I’d have to pay just to have dinner with them at one of those conferences.
As for merchandise—yeahhh, I have an issue with wearing the clothes you’re selling on a Sunday. But I don’t begrudge pastors for having a side hustle. Right? You don’t have to be poor to be a pastor, right? Money isn’t evil, right? Some pastors have to work a second job to survive. Pastor/teacher? Okay. Pastor/coach? Fine. Pastor/carpenter? That’s biblical. But pastor/YouTuber? Questionable. Pastor/influencer/clothing brand? Feels off. I don’t know, man. You’re saying there’s a line—without saying exactly where—but you’re sure he crossed it.
As a pastor, when someone comments on my nicer truck, I feel like I have to clarify that it was an inheritance gift. When I get a compliment on something expensive, I feel this weird burden to justify it. Why? Because of sentiments like this. There’s a line, right? A pastor should never own a BMW. Or a Hummer… in 2003. There’s just so much pressure to look humble. And I hope you understand how real that pressure is. It sucks. I think about every nice thing I buy. I wonder if it’s okay to go in on a hunting camp. What kind of car can my daughter drive??? (That realization is hitting me hard.)
So… let’s not be too quick to judge. Just because the guy—who I don’t know and didn’t take the time to figure out—is doing well doesn’t mean he’s automatically immoral.
Dang that baptism link being expired is a flashing red light...
To be sure, I agree with most of what you say here. Still I'm conflicted over some of what you mention. The website links... Our church where I work has buttons for tithing (which works) as well as Merchandise. The merchandise is actually because people in the congregation requested shirts with our logo on it. Whatever is brought in over cost stays with the church - not a person. The money processes through the church's financial system.
I keep thinking, but for the grace of God would I be there too? I have a piece coming out in 2 weeks that talks about my arrogance in my early 20s, and how I have built accountability around that issue now.
I suppose the distinction between these things being a problem or not is whether it benefits The Kingdom or my kingdom - right?
I have been chewing on similar thoughts lately...though not as organized and eloquently spoke as in your essay.
My conclusion is that I think a lot of us have confused “influence” for “impact” especially with modern day sosh (what I call social media!).
Thanks for this piece.
oooh "a lot of us have confused 'influence' for 'impact'" that will PREACH. Yeah I feel bad for not having any answers, and I wonder if there are any easy answers in today's world.
I’ve been thinking about this for the past year or two. Being in South Korea now, another country influenced and rooted in capitalism, I’m learning more and more about the enmeshment of this economic theory and Christianity and trying to understand how to live counter to my culture while not forsaking it altogether. I want to love my culture and the people in it, but I also want to call them to a better way.
I was talking to my dad about this last night, and I think those are SUCH good thoughts. I'm honestly unsure how much it has to do with the specific economic system we are in and how much ANY economic system can be perverted to serve the self. I am cheering for you!
Great piece Drew, thanks for sharing
Dude thank you so much! That means a lot coming from you!
https://substack.com/@fishman101/note/c-89911312?r=2masfs&utm_medium=ios&utm_source=notes-share-action
I believe the answer lies in returning to God’s original design for the church. Not as an institution, but as a living Body where Christ alone is the Head and Shepherd. The ecclesia was never meant to be defined by titles, buildings, or hierarchical systems, but by a community of believers walking in mutual submission, active participation, and shared spiritual gifts, all under the lordship of Jesus.
• Does scripture define “pastor” as a title?
• Does scripture support a clergy/laity class divide?
• Does scripture support the church building as the house of the Lord?
• Does scripture define the ecclesia gathering as monolog or dialogue?
• Does scripture define “church” as an event or as a people?
• Does scripture ever refer to “worship” as a weekly meeting?
• Who is biblically authorized to speak, teach, or lead in the ecclesia?
• Does scripture support the professionalization of ministry?
• Did Jesus or the apostles establish institutional leadership structures or organic, relational ones?
• Does scripture indicate that financial giving is for building maintenance and staff salaries, or for meeting the needs of people?
• Does scripture define “fellowship” (koinonia) as passive attendance or active participation?
• Does scripture allow for the consolidation of spiritual authority around a single individual?
• Does the New Testament portray spiritual gifts as hierarchical or equal in value for building up the body?
Could it be that “Nicolaitan” in Rev 2:6&15 could mean the man-made system we’ve created? Our golden calf?
So, okay. I’m not 100% on board. Maybe 50%??? Tim Keller’s site frustrated me for years because you had to pay for his sermons. Meanwhile, Piper and plenty of others offered theirs for free. But let’s be real—both those guys sold books, packed out conferences, and had marketing teams helping them distribute millions of dollars’ worth of materials over their lifetimes. I have no doubt I’d have to pay just to have dinner with them at one of those conferences.
As for merchandise—yeahhh, I have an issue with wearing the clothes you’re selling on a Sunday. But I don’t begrudge pastors for having a side hustle. Right? You don’t have to be poor to be a pastor, right? Money isn’t evil, right? Some pastors have to work a second job to survive. Pastor/teacher? Okay. Pastor/coach? Fine. Pastor/carpenter? That’s biblical. But pastor/YouTuber? Questionable. Pastor/influencer/clothing brand? Feels off. I don’t know, man. You’re saying there’s a line—without saying exactly where—but you’re sure he crossed it.
As a pastor, when someone comments on my nicer truck, I feel like I have to clarify that it was an inheritance gift. When I get a compliment on something expensive, I feel this weird burden to justify it. Why? Because of sentiments like this. There’s a line, right? A pastor should never own a BMW. Or a Hummer… in 2003. There’s just so much pressure to look humble. And I hope you understand how real that pressure is. It sucks. I think about every nice thing I buy. I wonder if it’s okay to go in on a hunting camp. What kind of car can my daughter drive??? (That realization is hitting me hard.)
So… let’s not be too quick to judge. Just because the guy—who I don’t know and didn’t take the time to figure out—is doing well doesn’t mean he’s automatically immoral.
Comments? Questions? Sarcastic Remarks?
🔥🔥🔥
Guess we'll just have to do down to the river and get baptized the old fashioned way. 😄🙌
Dang that baptism link being expired is a flashing red light...
To be sure, I agree with most of what you say here. Still I'm conflicted over some of what you mention. The website links... Our church where I work has buttons for tithing (which works) as well as Merchandise. The merchandise is actually because people in the congregation requested shirts with our logo on it. Whatever is brought in over cost stays with the church - not a person. The money processes through the church's financial system.
I keep thinking, but for the grace of God would I be there too? I have a piece coming out in 2 weeks that talks about my arrogance in my early 20s, and how I have built accountability around that issue now.
I suppose the distinction between these things being a problem or not is whether it benefits The Kingdom or my kingdom - right?